인터뷰이 : 이고잉 (egoing)
인터뷰어 : 민노씨
일시 : 2011년 12월 30일 2시 17분 ~ 11시 15분
장소 : 한남동 복합문화공간, 그리고 밥집과 커피전문점.
1. 인생이란 진지한 표정으로 거론할 수 있는 그런 하찮은 게 아니다
2. 마당
3. 탐앤탐스
1. 이고잉 egoing
2. 블로거 이고잉
3. 생활코딩
4. 인터넷
7. 허무에 대하여
8. 우린 그냥 좀더 이야기하기로 했어.
* 총 8회에 걸쳐 오늘부터 매일 하나씩 연재합니다.
S#1. 이고잉. egoing
키워드들 ; 인프라, 인터페이스, 프레임웍, 자신감, 미학, 책상, 그리고 아버지
- 이고잉(egoing)이란 필명은 왜 언제부터 썼나?
“8년 쯤 됐다. e의 세상으로 간다, 뭐 그런 뜻. e가 막 뜰 때 별 뜻 없이 지은 이름이다.”
- 본인을 어떻게 소개하는 편인가?
“글쓰는 거 좋아하고, 개발하는 거 좋아해요, 뭐 그 정도? 그 두 가지가 나에겐 가장 중요하니까.”
- 누군가의 자기 소개가 인상적이었던 때는?
“없다. 소개 자체를 별로 좋아하지 않는다. 여러 사람이 차례로 자기를 소개하는 거 굉장히 싫어하는 편이다. 재미었어야 할 것 같고, 압축적이어야 할 것 같고.. 그게 싫다.”
- 자기 소개, 연습한 적 있나?
“속으로 이렇게 해야지 연습한다. 고민하는데 그 공간에서 나만 창의적이지 않은 것 같은 느낌. 나만 진부하다고 느끼고… 그렇다.”
- 인정받고 싶나?
“그렇다. 인정받고 싶은 욕구가 크다.”
- 누구에게?
“특정한 대상을 염두에 두진 않는다. 물론 좋아하는 사람에겐 더 인정받고 싶겠지.”
- 좋아하는 누구?
“특정은 어렵다… 좀 다른 이야기지만 나를 가장 인정해주는 사람은 아버지인 것 같다.”
- 아버지와 이야기를 많이 하는 것 같은데… 블로그에 <아버지>란 글이 있더라. 거기에 아버지를 ‘동업자’라고 표현했던데…
“‘동업자’란 표현은 지울까 싶다. 그 한마디로는 표현하기 어렵다. 아버지는 특이한 분이다. 컴맹이시고, 많이 배운 분도 아니다. 그런데 내 이야기의 맥락을 즐기신다. 내가 하는 이야기(컴퓨터 관련)를 가장 재밌게 들어주신다. 아버지에겐 필터링 없이 이야기한다. 속물적인 이야기, 그 반대로 너무 이상적이라서 이야기하지 못하는 것 까지 다 이야기한다. 많이 배운 분도 아니고, 기술적인 이해도 부족하신데, 재밌게 들어주신다. 묘한 느낌이 들곤 한다. 서로가 가진 콘텐츠는 달라도 인터페이스가 일치하기 때문이 아닐까 싶다.” (+ 아버지와 액션영화)
- 아버지만한 대화 상대는 없었나?
“많다. 특정하면 샘내니까. 안전하게 아버지만(웃음).”
- 아버지랑 친하다는 건 어떤 느낌인가?
“6년 전에 청주에서 프로그램을 개발한 적 있다. 지금이랑 같은 상황. 1년 동안 집안에서 틀어박혀서, 히키코모리(引き籠もり. 방이나 집 등의 특정 공간에서 나가지 못하거나 나가지 않는 사람과 그러한 현상)처럼. 그 때 아버지랑 어쩔 수 없이 많은 시간을 보냈다. 아버지는 점점 내 이야기를 재밌어 하기 시작했고, 나는 아버지에게 내 생각을 이야기하는 것이 점점 재미 있어졌다. 매일 그게 그거인 이야기를 했는데, 하지만 99가 같아도 1은 다른 이야기들. 그런 날이 100일이면 결국 100이 새로 생겨난다. 그게 아버지와의 대화에서 느끼는 맛이랄까.”
- ‘아버지는 결심하는 순간을 만들어주시는 분’
“아버지와의 대화에서 ‘결심’을 하게 되는 순간이 많다. 이왕에 아이디어는 있지만, 아버지와 이야기하면서 결심하게 된다. <효도코딩>도 그랬다. 아버지와 이야기하다가 이제 해야겠다는 거. 이제 할 때가 됐구나. 그런 느낌을 갖는다. 아버지도 <효도코딩>에 관심이 많으시고. 가끔 전화가 온다. 무미건조하게 나에게 묻는다, “잘 돼 가냐?” 어쩌면 아버지의 대리만족일 수도 있다. 아버지는 나를 드라마 시청하듯 보는 것 같기도 하다. 그런 면에서 아버지는 내 가장 중요한 관객이다. 이런 저런 조언을 많이 주신다. “손이 왜 그러냐?” “목소리에 침 넣어가는 소리기가 거슬린다.” 등등.” (+ 효도코딩)
- 인생의 전범, 롤모델이 있나?
“예전엔 존경하는 사람이 많았다. 하지만 부질없다. 최근엔 존경하더라도 빠가 되면 안되겠다고 생각하는 편이다. 남의 눈으로 세상을 보게 될 수도 있으니까. 특정하긴 싫지만, 많은 영향을 미친 사람이 있다. 정치인도 있고, 직장에서 만난 선배도 있다. 하지만 나는 ‘그’와는 다른 맥락을 갖고 있으니까. 함께 있는 시간은 아주 의미있는 성장의 시간이었지만. 일할 수 있는 만큼만 일하고, 나의 길을 찾는게 중요하다고 생각한다. 존경하되 경도되지 않으려고 노력한다. 앞으론 아무리 존경스러워도 ‘그’에게 경도되진 않을 것 같다.” (+ 처세)
- 그렇다면 누군가에게 전범이 되고 싶긴 하나?
“그런 마음도 있다. 그게 부담스럽기도 하지만… ”
- 이고잉이 원하는 전범의 모습 : ‘프레임워크(framework)’
“프로그램에선 골격이 되는 프레임. 그걸 만들어 놓는다. 공통되는 부분을 프레임으로 만들면 나머지의 개별적인 것들에 집중할 수 있다. 그걸 인생으로 확장하면 그런 프레임워크 하나쯤 만들어보고 싶다는 생각을 한다. 물론 그게 다양성에 기여할 수 있기를 바란다. 프레임이 다양성을 축소하고 억압해선 안된다.” (+ 프레임 웍)
- 요즘 중요하게 생각하는 키워드들
“요즘은 ‘인프라’와 ‘인터페이스’. 개발용어들은 뭔가를 만드는데 특화된 용어다. 그래서 무엇인가를 표현할 때도 적합한 용어들이 많다.” (+ 인프라 : “처음엔 사람을 위해서 구축된 인프라였다. 이제는 인프라를 위해서 사람이 구축된다. 우리는 구축되고 있다.”)(+ 직관과 논리 - 키보드와 펜, 윈도우와 리눅스)
- 사랑, 평등, 평화, 희망, 소망… 이런 평범한 키워드들 중에선?
“자신감. 나는 자신감이란 키워드를 오랫동안 붙잡고 있었다. 그리고 ‘미학’도 나에겐 아주 중요한 키워드다.”
- 아름다움과 추함. 둘은 불가분이란 생각도 들지만, 어떤 쪽에 좀더 주목하나?
“나는 물론 아름다움을 추구한다. 자기가 생각하는 아름다움을 추구해야 한다고 생각한다. 그게 삶의 즐거움이다. 다만 세상을 살아갈 때는 자신만의 미학으로 살아선 안된다고 생각한다. 인식과 행동의 차이랄까. 삶의 주인공으로서는 자신의 미학이 이끄는데로 확고하게 살아야 하고, 세상에 대한 관찰자로서는 자기 미학을 확실하게 배제해야 한다고 생각한다. 가령 ‘삼성’을 예를 들어보면, 나는 애플을 좋아한다. 애플만의 고집스런 미학을 좋아한다. 그런 애플이 세상을 좌지우지할 때 그게 세상의 정답이라고 생각했다. 하지만 삼성이 더 많은 단말기를 팔았다는 뉴스를 접하게 되고…. 삼성은 시장조사와 컨설팅과 마케팅으로 존재하는 회사구나. 나는 저렇게 살고 싶지는 않지만, 저런 모습도 세상을 살아가는 한 방법이구나, 생각한다.” ( + 미학)
- 애착하는 물건
“책상. 책상을 감상하는 걸 좋아한다. 있어야 할 것만 있는 모습. (바라보는 걸?) 그렇다. 뺄 것도 없고, 더할 것도 없는 상태를 좋아한다. 책상을 바라보는 태도에는 몇 가지 있다. 더 이상 더렵힐 수 없을만큼 포화상태인 책상도 있고, 약간은 더 더렵혀질 수도 있는 책상도 있다. 내 하루 동안에도 책상은 엄청 더러워졌다, 깨뜻해졌다를 여러번 왔다 갔다 한다. 어떤 상태가 되기를 바라는 모습이 책상에 반영되어 있다.”
- 어떤 책상의 모습을 좋아하나?
“모니터. 키보드…. 그렇게 있어야 할 최소한이 있는 상태.”
- ‘나는 복잡한 걸 잘 처리하지 못한다.’
“나는 복잡한 걸 처리하지 못하는 편이다. 집에도 살림이 별로 없지 않나? 지인이 집에 와서, ‘스티브 잡스를 따라하는 거냐?’는 식으로 농담을 하더라. 내가 잡스보다 어리다고 그를 따라한게 되는 것은 좀 억울하다.(웃음)”
(인터뷰 첫 장소)
- 이상형은?
“없다. 그런 게 있다고 생각하지도 않는다. 결과적으로 누군가가 좋아질 뿐이라고 생각한다.”
- 영화나 드라마 속 캐릭터에서도?
“없다.”
- 말하는 게 논리정연하고, 설득력 있다. 연습인가?
“스킬에 대해서 먼저 말하면, 말하기 연습을 하는 습관이 있다. 혼자 있으면 가상의 청자를 대상으로 말하자면 발표를 한다. 학창시절 말을 못해서 겪은 한(恨) 때문이었다. 정신적인 부분에 대해서 겸손 없이 진술하면, 나의 암기력과 이해력은 참 불운하다. 반대로, 나의 성실함은 거의 최상급이라서 나 보다 성실한 사람을 별로 보지 못했다. 이 정도면 균형잡힌 깔대기가 아닌가? (웃음) 이해와 암기가 부족해서 외부를 받아들이는 것이 부족 하지만, 이것들을 받아들이는 훈련을 성실하게 해왔다. 일단은 나를 이해시키기 위한 노력이 역으로 남을 이해 시키는데서 발현되는 것은 아닐까? 이건 정확적인 짐작이다.” (+ 능력)
- ‘나는 입이 작다.’
“일테면 빵을 먹는 것과 비슷하다. 어떤 사람은 입이 커서 빵을 통째로 먹는다. 하지만 나는 입이 작아서 그걸 쪼개 먹는다. 그런 훈련을 한다. 그래서 결국 다른 이들에게도 조각으로 나눠줄 수 있는 능력이 조금씩 생겼다고 본다. 나름의 논리력이랄까. 내 낮은 사양의 하드웨어 때문에 역설적으로 소프트웨어가 개선이 된 것 같다.” (+직관과 논리)
- 좋아하는 동네
“청주. 청주를 좋아한다. 청주는 뭔가 뭐가 없다. ‘직지’(최초의 금속활자) 밖에 없다. 깨끗한 느낌이다. 아무 것도 없다. 내 인생의 과반 이상이 거기에 있다. 중요한 사람들도 거기에 있다. 내 혈육들이 거기에 있으니까. 친구들도 있고… 물론 이제는 서울에 많은 친구들이 생겼지만”
- 도시적인 느낌이 강하다. 차도남 같달까?
“부끄럽다. 잘 모르겠다. (웃음)”
- 계속 서울에서 살 건가?
“한국을 떠나진 않을거다. 그럴 것 같다.” 라고 대답하고 보니까 서울에서 살것인가에 대한 질문을 한국에서 살것인가로 받아들였다는 것은 좀 묘한 착오다.
- 세상에서 가장 아름다운 건...
“사랑하는 사람들.”
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민노씨와 인터뷰해서 영광입니다.
제가 영광입니다. : )
우어어~
무려 8회에 걸친 인터뷰!!!
잘 읽었고, 잘 읽겠습니다! ^^
어익후, 고맙습니다. : )
읽고 의견도 주시면 더 고맙겠습니당!! ^ ^
잘 읽었습니다.
아거 님께서 남겨주는 한 줄이 저에겐 정말 큰 힘이 됩니다!! :)
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